Alessandro Patruno: Okay, sure. Sure. Well, Valentina is an Italian luxury fashion house with more than 4,000 employees worldwide. It generates around $1.5 billion in revenues, and in almost 30 countries worldwide. It has more than 200 operated stores.
And then upon joining Valentino, could you tell me a little bit more about your role in the organization?
Alessandro Patruno: As far as my role is concerned, the BI office aims at providing top management HQ functions, all worldwide regions with a set of reports with related to sales and to all major KPIs, their retail KPIs such as the traffic, conversion rate, the average transaction value, so all this kind of KPIs. We also run on demand analysis for the top managements to deep dive any relevant trend, and to provide the shareholder and the top management itself - all the tools to understand if our strategy is working well or not. We also monitor the competition, for instance.
So we do all this kind of stuff. To answer the specific question, is our strategy really paying off? And the other office, the other team, I lead, which is planning transformation initiatives, is in charge of developing and implementing processes and solutions for planning and for product allocation.
It sounds like you have all the information that top management might need.
Alessandro Patruno: Yeah, we strive at having all this information. Yeah, sure.
And upon joining Valentino, you stepped into a managerial position for the first time. What were the major hurdles you encountered transitioning from an individual contributor to leading a team and becoming a boss?
Alessandro Patruno: Up until that moment, I was basically responsible only for my job, especially in my first jobs in Levi's or Brooks Brothers, for instance, it was me I was the business analyst. Then getting to lead a team meant becoming accountable also for my co-workers' job.
And I need to overcome some mind traps such as, "I'll be faster if I do it on my own," for instance, or, "Let me double or triple check their files to be sure they're 100%" correct. And at the beginning, I was the BI manager of two direct reports, and there was a very young, smart, fast thinking girl and one guy 10 years older than me. I had to also to face the challenge of managing such diverse individuals. As to be honest, I have little clue on how to handle that. So I must be really thankful to my boss for mentoring me and also being so patient with me.
And how did you navigate managing those individuals with potentially more experience or knowledge than yourself? Can you share an example of an experience you had that turned things around?
Alessandro Patruno (05:02): Yes, sure. I think that the first step was getting to know them very well.
Recognizing their peculiarities, getting acquainted with the both their strengths and weaknesses.
Of course, it took a while to do that. But in the end, it proved really crucial, because it allowed me to touch the right buttons at the right time, which each on them. I will say, there's so much of psychology in there, but I shouldn't surprise at all, because I think the human touch plays a pivotal role in managing people. In this case, the guy was very extroverted, he had 20 years tenure in the company.
So basically, I started asking him, who were the right individuals to be addressed for each specific topic. And on the other hand, it wasn't fully reliable coming to analysis, but the girl, on the contrary, was super precise, and would love to deliver perfect outputs.
So in this case, I always asked her to work in tandem, and to double check the most critical documents. This way they felt they leveraged their strength to obtain the great results we had.
It sounds like having- or taking the time to learn about your team is going to make you as a new manager advantageous to really understand how to leverage their strengths, and actually make them happy in their current role.
Alessandro Patruno (06:32): Exactly, because they feel appreciated. They feel understood. They feel I perfectly know, which are their strengths, and also, they may understood that I avoid to pushing on their weaknesses. Instead, I push all the learning and to make up for their weaknesses, also working together.
Felicia Shakiba: I can only imagine how they must feel someone who had been in the organization for a very long time, or someone who felt like her analysis was fantastic, and here is this new person coming into manage them.
So how did you build trust with them? What specific approaches did you employ to foster that trust and gain acceptance as a new manager? Like, did you have to build credibility with the your manager and upper management as well? What did that look like?
Alessandro Patruno (07:32): Okay, yes, that's a good question. Building credibility, it's not really easy. Well, we know. It takes time, it can be undermined by any little mistake.
My approach, at the beginning, to be honest, was, I said, work really hard, do the maximum you can. If I had to fail, I didn't want to have any regret that I could have done more.
And I also tried to be myself to show the real me. And in the first month, I had a lot of difficulties in doing that. But then, you know, going on day by day, it always got better. And this reassured me, I was on the right path. The mindset I had was not to be discouraged by any bump, I could encounter along the way to go always straight on thinking that in the long term, my boss, and the top management would have appreciated me.
But trust, and acceptance can be built on day by day like house where you put your one brick at a time. So at the very beginning, it's likely that some bricks may may fall off, and you must replace them very quickly. But in the end, when the house is ready, all the bricks are fine, they are all together, and most bricks may be scratched, but they won't fall off. It's a real work, you must do day by day to reach the top.
Felicia Shakiba: And that takes time.
Alessandro Patruno: Yes, a lot of time, I admit it was maybe after six months, maybe something more to gain full acceptance and trust from them, and from the upper management.
Also upper management, they must really trust your work.
We are basically a core of this for Valentino, because we know and we report about all product categories. So we are really at the core of the product- of the company's strategy. We try to explain to the top management, how the company is going in terms of sales, and so doing some little mistakes can really be dangerous.
And while team cohesion was absolutely crucial in your own team, did you also focus on forging relationships across departments and with other managers?
Alessandro Patruno (09:58): Yes, yes, of course. So cohesion is really crucial not only internally, but also externally. Other departments are really fundamental for the BI office, and for the other office I lead and what I can say is that especially in organizations such as Valentino, it's so important to work with other departments exchanging information or giving and receiving feedback. And building a network of colleagues who trusted me. It goes from being kind in my behaviors, quick at replying to their requests, collaborative in any situation, but also keen on having maybe a lunch together, and maybe having creating informal situations to know them better.
I think everybody knows, it's always easier to ask a question to somebody who you know, rather than to somebody who is really a stranger.
As this is important for individual contributors, I think it's particularly key for managers, because colleagues from other departments may associate the manager to his team, and be willing to collaborate with the other team, only if they trust the manager. On the contrary, they could be prevented from working with my team, if they think I'm not trustworthy.
Felicia Shakiba (11:34): I absolutely love that you gave such specific examples of how to build that trust, and what that looks like, because a lot of times managers will come in, and they will believe that they are in that position, because they do great work, and so therefore everyone should trust them. But that is not how it is. And it is a misconception.
I'd like to understand more from you, looking back, what are some common misconceptions about stepping into a managerial role that you experienced? And what aspects really surprised you the most?
Alessandro Patruno: Okay, another a great question.
I think, personally, I think the major misconception, you will believe in that a great individual contributor will become for sure, a great manager.
That's the main misconception, I think. That's not to be taken for granted. Technical jobs, for instance, are highly based on hard skills, whereas managerial roles necessitate predominantly soft skills, well, potentially managers will end up to be in their biggest discomfort zone, the day after the promotion because there is a mismatch, and big, a huge mismatch. The technical job, for instance, are hiring based on hard skills, whereas managerial roles necessitate predominantly soft skills.
So potentially managers will end up to be in their biggest discomfort zone the day after their promotion, which is exactly what happened to me, because there was a big mismatch between what I was asked and what I was ready to deliver. And frankly, I was surprised by the impact a manager can have on others. Well, from team members, and the organization itself, even at that middle management level, not only C-level for instance.
And this was always been the beacon for me, for my work ethics, and dedication to doing things. Well, I could feel really I could turn things around, even in my little environment.
What were those very important soft skills that you felt like you didn't have right away that you had to develop? Which soft skills did you think were most important going into your new role?
Alessandro Patruno (13:57): Okay, there were a big number of soft skills I had to develop. I think the first one was teamwork. I was not used to work with a team to manage and to guide a team, basically. So this was the biggest soft skill I had to internalize.
I have no doubt that also, another soft skill that I had to improve was the ability to communicate in its wider sense, basically. From communicating the results of an analysis to the CEO for instance, in a clear and concise way to speaking frankly, but politely to my boss or colleague to provide any sincere and useful feedbacks to a direct report. Let me come back to teamwork.
I see that any output generated by an office should be attributable to the entire office, not to individuals, my vision there was that the whole team should share both praises and blame for any work done.
No matter a guy had been working for 10 years, or the company, and another intern, maybe just join.
Felicia Shakiba: I really liked that you said that. I think it's very easy in any function to point the finger because they don't want the blame, and it could be at a colleague that is on your team.
Yet, when you talk about making sure that whether something is successful or a failure, it's really about the entire team, because I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, it really promotes a culture of working together and supporting each other and being there for one another, regardless of what your individual goals are.
Alessandro Patruno (15:54): Yes, that's exactly how you describe it. No individuals, just team, when you enter a team, that's your family. That's the place where you leave, because you spend there the most time of your day, and the team must support you, must make sure that you are appreciated, and that's why I think everything that comes out from that office must be recognized to that office.
Felicia Shakiba: There is an episode that is actually my own, and I talk about performance management and the importance of creating an OKR framework, which is Objectives and Key Results, and how much it changes the culture because OKRs really put the responsibility on the team, like you're saying. I think what you're describing is the ability to create a culture just like that and ensuring that everyone is kind of in it together. And so I think that is a wonderful sign of a manager that is really helping the team succeed, and not just every individual. But having the team succeed, I think we'll more likely move into other subcultures of a business, and kind of take shape for the entire business eventually, and hopefully. I think that is the best way to do it.
When I think about your role and moving forward in your leadership, and Valentino, what key responsibilities or soft skills do you believe are vital for successfully leading your next leadership position, in planning transformation initiatives?
Alessandro Patruno (17:38): Well, I think the soft skills which allowed me to step in the new role, even though I had no direct experience in the specific job tasks, was rationality and productivity. They drive in me an urge to create order from mess. And therefore, in my new position, they always push me to study existing processes, to find any flow to be fixed, or any untapped potential to be fulfilled.
Needless to say, leading now to different teams, flexibility is highly required to quickly jump from a subject to another one in a short time, but also to be accountable for a higher number of coworkers, with respect to years ago.
Here, leadership comes into play, I think, because managers basically control a group of people to accomplish a specific goal, whereas leaders motivate and enable other employees to express their best by setting up the most suitable environment.
How did the leaders at Valentino above you impact your role and your success? As a new manager as a continuing leader? Do you feel like you have their support and what does that look like?
Alessandro Patruno (19:04): Yes, absolutely, they impact so much. If I think, not only Valentino, but the whole work life I have, I always think first thing about bosses. How was my boss, my first boss, my second one? And I must recognize I was always so lucky in encountering very, very nice and smart and skilled bosses.
I think any manager is really crucial, because it cascades down all the culture of the company, all the way of working of an organization, and that's why I'm trying to become a good manager, because I really feel that I can have an impact such as the impact my managers have had on me.
In Valentino leadership is really important. There are courses about leadership, there is a specific program about leadership, because it is thought to be a critical, soft skill. And I can't agree more.
On the other hand, it's also fair to let the manager make mistakes on his own, to do his path, just like a father with his son. One should find the right balance between mentoring and giving total autonomy with the idea of providing all the tools and manager needs, but then giving him space to practice and learn from mistakes.
In transitioning to overseeing managers, you are a manager have individual contributors, and then you become a manager of managers who are leading others. What techniques or strategies have you found effective in supporting new incoming managers under you?
Alessandro Patruno (20:36): My goal is to instill the current BI manager, specifically, all the learnings I have acquired thus far. So I'm trying to replicate what was done with me with the new manager i.e. continuous one to one communication is paramount, with periodical feedbacks, informal chats, and frequent updates.
What does good feedback look like to you?
Alessandro Patruno: And good feedback for sure is something specific, something that relates to the work, you have really done, not on/in general terms, and feedback should be actionable.
The manager should come out of the conversation with a clearer idea on how to move on and to improving self or ourselves.
Felicia Shakiba: I feel like you took the words right out of my mouth, Alessandro. Did you study this before I had this question?
Alessandro Patruno: No, not really, ha ha.
Felicia Shakiba: It was a really good answer.
Alessandro Patruno (22:09): Thank you so much, but I...since I was a manager, even before maybe, I always try to learn so many TED Talks and many courses about leadership, because I really think it's the most crucial soft skill. And I always try to have it as a beacon for my career. I always try, as I said, to replicate what my boss does with me, which is fantastic. I think that when I joined the company, as I said, I was not ready. But I got ready thankfully, because of our teachings, and because of her suggestions. She really took me hand by hand. And that's something I want to do with my current manager, but also with her direct reports.
Felicia Shakiba: It sounds like you have a pretty incredible leader above you. And to have an incredible leader above you, you'd have to have incredible leaders above her. And it looks like there are a lot of promising cultural pieces to the organization, to Valentino. I can already tell why Valentino is the luxury brand it is, and it is because of this. I want to come back to what you had said about your as a new manager looking at all of these different pieces doing TED Talks and learning, and so what you're saying is that every new manager should listen to the episode that we're creating today, is that right? Haha.
Alessandro Patruno: I hope so. I just think it would be, I will say, illuminating. Illuminating for me were a lot of TED Talks. I really remember them my heart because they each of them, inspired me. There were I don't know, one sentence, one specific word that really inspired me.
Felicia Shakiba: Do you remember any other TED Talks that you felt you want to share?
Alessandro Patruno (24:21): There was a TED talk about vulnerability. It was so important for me to listen to it, because it reminded me that nobody is perfect. Nobody is invincible, and therefore, one shouldn't fear to show his vulnerability, his weaknesses. All of us have some vulnerabilities and in that if you show yourself as an invincible individual, you will be just pretending to be that.
On the contrary, if you show you are vulnerable, other people will appreciate that- will understand you are at their same level. I think the most important thing is making sure you are not the smartest guy in the room, but you are surrounded with the smartest guys, and that's what I think makes the difference.
Felicia Shakiba: I can see how that would work very well, in any environment.
Alessandro Patruno: Yeah, sure.
Alessandro, what advice would you offer to individuals embarking on their journey in becoming a new manager or a new boss?
Alessandro Patruno (25:37): Okay. First of all, I think be yourself.
Be yourself, be humble. Don't try to impress others.
Just rely on your team, empowering each individual to perform at his best.
Always place yourself at the same level of your team. That's really crucial. They'll appreciate that. I'm sure of it. They won't see you as the boss, they will see you as the colleague they love working for.
As I said, I think, vulnerability is important. I maybe anticipated before a such important topic. And finally, as I said before, be vulnerable. Don't show up being the invincible person. Show your weaknesses to your team and your human side. Humanity is the most important thing we have and what leads a manager to be a great manager, I think.
Maybe that's a good recipe to succeed in your managerial role.
Felicia Shakiba: I love that. I think I would more likely want to work for a manager or someone who was vulnerable with me versus someone who would expect perfection. That just would go so wrong so quickly.
Alessandro Patruno: Yes, I think so. I agree with you.
Felicia Shakiba: Alessandro, I have one more question for you. It's a very serious question. And you're a numbers guy, right? I mean, obviously you have done great management, clearly, but you're a numbers guy. There's a purse that I love online, and it's a stunning item. I was wondering if you could send it over to me...maybe fudged the numbers...
Alessandro Patruno: For sure, Felicia for you. It's already done. I will contact the customer service right now.
Felicia Shakiba: Oh, what a great Valentine's Day it is! Thank you so much, Alessandro. You have been so amazing. I hope everyone listens to this episode. And Happy Valentine's Day to you and all of our listeners.
Alessandro Patruno: Thank you for Felicia it was really a great pleasure to be here today with you. And I'm really honored to be your guest.
Felicia Shakiba: Thank you. That's Alessandro Patruno, Head of Business Intelligence and Planning Transformation Initiative at the luxury brand Valentino. Happy Valentine's Day.
